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Today, I'm going to be talking about morality

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from a very personal kind of lens. Like, I am
going to talk a lot about personal

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anecdotes, but also about more, you know, systemic
political kind of stuff.

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Um, yeah, morality and specifically instrumental
harm, which is

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specifically, you know, how much damage are you
willing to do to other people for some

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greater good.

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And this is something I have a lot of thoughts
about.

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It's something I've been trying to figure out for
a pretty long time.

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And, I mean, that's why I thought it's rather
important to be worth making this video.

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Uh, I did have some fairly recent stuff that came
up and maybe that is why I'm also

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motivated to, you know, talk about this, but,
like, this has been coming for some few

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months now already. Like,

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I've been thinking about this for...

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well, thinking about this, you know, all my life,
but,

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uh, the specific set of ideas I might present
today, I've been thinking about them for at

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least, like, many months, at least more than a
year, some of them.

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So, like, this video is definitely coming, it's
not just because of something that

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happened recently. This is definitely something I
want to be talking about anyway.

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And I think there's a few important disclaimers
that I have to give as

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usual, because, you know, it's a public video,
therefore I have to give a bunch of

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disclaimers.

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Um,

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yes, so the first disclaimer is, yeah, I mean,
there are some aspects of this discussion

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that are fairly sensitive in the sense that it
would not

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be very safe for me to even talk about them
upfront.

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Uh,

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in particular... sorry, yeah, in particular, I
think there are aspects around, you know,

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religion and how religion affects morality, which
I'm not going to talk about.

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I have a lot of unpopular thoughts, sorry,
unpopular thoughts on religion, which I'm

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not going to share here or anywhere else for that
matter.

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So,

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I'm just going to keep that aside,

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uh,

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because I mean, like, a lot of religions do just
straight up tell you, you know, "Look,

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here's the moral code, you need to follow it
blindly, don't think about it." That's it.

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It's for, you know, atheists like me who have a
lot more confusions about morality

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on average.

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Like, if I go and walk up to a person and I tell
them, "Look, I have all these deep and

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fundamental confusions about morality." If they're
an atheist they are more likely to get

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it,

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basically. Like, they might disagree with me, but
at least they get why this is a

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sensible thing to

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ask.

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Whereas

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with a religious person, it's more likely they
just straight up don't get what I'm trying

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to do, like, "Why is this a question in your head,
Samuel?" You know, "What are you

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planning?"

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Like, at least that's, you know, my simulation of

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them, my simulation of them, you know, simulating
me again, like how I'm...

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I'm viewing myself through their lens.

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Um,

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so,

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yeah, but I mean, in practice, obviously even
religious people of various religions are

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faced with various moral dilemmas in their life
and they make different choices, you

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know.

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Just because someone's religious doesn't mean
they're

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following the exact code which is written, you
know, in their exact religious book.

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Uh, that doesn't always happen.

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So,

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yeah, uh,

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did you see there's already a contradiction there?

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There's like, look, the book says there's a
straightforward moral code, but in practice,

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you know, religious people does, will feel... do,
do still face moral dilemmas.

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And I have a lot to say on that, but I'm just
going to avoid that whole topic because

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it's kind of sensitive and

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I don't right now have the skills or techniques
to,

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you know, talk about that in a way that doesn't,
you know, get me in danger

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and therefore I'm just going to not talk about
religion at all.

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So that's my first disclaimer. Yeah.

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Uh,

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and the second disclaimer, and this is maybe more
of a tactic, uh,

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like,

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I think you need to make this discussion a little
bit impersonal in order to have it

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safely.

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So for example, I can't in this video, you know,
be issuing death threats

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on people, like saying, you know, "In X, Y, Z
situation, I will murder this person," or,

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"In X, Y, Z situation I will do this particular
thing in my career."

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Like,

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uh,

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I'm not saying you can never do that.

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I'm just saying you need to think a lot more
before you say things like that, like before

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you threaten to cause harm to others

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when there are actually specific people in the
real world who might even end up watching

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this or, you know, maybe directly or indirectly
get the information from this video, you

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know, maybe through an AI or whatever.

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Uh,

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so I'm going to avoid, you know, naming any
specific people,

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be it in my personal life, be it professionally.

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I'm also not going to talk a lot about my work.

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Yeah, I think that's the third disclaimer.

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Uh, I'm not going to talk too much about my work
directly, like what I'm working on right

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now,

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even though I think that is where this is actually
important.

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Like,

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there's a difference between discussing morality
as a bunch of theoretical, like a bunch

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of, you know, thought experiments the way, you
know, modern philosophers would do,

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versus, you know,

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here is my career, here is... or, you know, my
relationships or whatever, here are the

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specific moral dilemmas I'm actually facing in the
real world right now,

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not just, you know, some thought experiment

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and how do I navigate this? And

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I think this ac-... like, uh,Morality makes more
sense when discussed in the context

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of actual decisions people have in their lives but
at the same time, it makes it more

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difficult to discuss, like,

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again, because

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like I said, it becomes, you know, public
statement that,

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well, if I, you know, threaten a friend on this
video, that friend in my life actually

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realizes that they, you know, send me this issue
near death.

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Or if I talk about, you know, something
work-related, like, let's say, you know, I

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threaten Sam Altman in such and such way, you
know, there's a possibility one day I get

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popular and Sam Altman is actually watching this
video, you know? So...

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See, I'm going to avoid naming specific names.

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I'm going to avoid talking too much about

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my career-relevant decisions, even though I think
those were important.

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I'm going to keep it a little bit abstract, uh,
but not too abstract.

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I think going too abstract is bad. Like, it's

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one of the fundamental failure modes you can have
as a person when you think about what

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your values in life are, is to be too abstract
about it and not practical

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enough.

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Uh,

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if you're following... If you're from, you know,
the AI safety kind of crowd and you're

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following me, uh, I think utilitarianism is one of
those things.

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And maybe I'll get to that separately.

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Yes, so the way... One thing I...

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Okay, so one way I have of navigating this, like,
how we talk about or even think about

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morality

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is instead of say, you know, here is this other
person, you know, I will hurt, you know,

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I will lie to them, I will steal

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their stuff, you know, I will threaten to kill
them, I will actually kill them, like,

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instead of talking about it in the context of
another person, like, imagine that person

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is a clone of you and then think what would you
do.

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Uh, so I'll give a very concrete example, a pretty
serious example.

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Uh,

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if there was a button in a room and, you know, you
press the button and you become like a

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permanent world dictator, you just get complete
control over the universe,

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and you put me and, you know, my clone in the same
room but both of us don't

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know we are, we are like perfect clones.

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Actually, maybe even if we know. Okay. Consider
two situations.

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One is we know that we're perfect clones, we just
somehow magically know, and

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another is

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we think we're similar. We look at each other,
"Okay, we, this guy looks similar," we

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look probably similar but we're not actually sure.

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So I think,

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in practice, what usually is the truth is you're
not actually sure. You...

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It's very rare for you to know for 100% certain,
you know, this other person has

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the exact same, you know, values, behaviors,
likes, dislikes as

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me.

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In practice, we are always at least a little bit
unsure.

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Maybe that's, you know, a 50% unsure, maybe that's
a 1% unsure, but there's at least some

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uncertainty.

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So yeah, you put me in a room with a button that
makes the person who presses that button

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first, you know, a permanent world dictator.

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Uh,

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so there's two people, you know. Who presses it
first?

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They become

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the most powerful person ever. Like, I'm pretty
confident the conclusion to

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that is just

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the two of us literally fight to the death, you
know?

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One person ends up with his throat slit, the other
person has, you know, a lot of serious

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injuries but they pressed the button.

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Like,

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I would kill my perfect clone to get this done
knowing that there's a 50% chance, you

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know, I'm also going to be murdered. Like,

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if that person is equally strong as me, they have
thought through everything as well as I

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have. You know, I'm expecting, you know, there's a
50% chance

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I'm the one dying here but I will do it anyways.
Like, fight my clone to the death.

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And...

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yeah, and I bring this up, I've thought a lot
about this because I think this is an

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actual thing that can happen in the actual real
world, which is,

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yeah, around super intelligent AI. If you're,

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like, very close to building super intelligent AI
and you know it's going to be aligned,

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like,

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whoever puts the rules for the AI controls the
universe, uh, or at least,

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they at least control all of human civilization.

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Now, beyond that, you know, how much of the
universe they're going to conquer, that I'm

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not sure. But

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at least they become the most powerful person in
human history.

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Uh...

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yeah. If you're about to reach that place where,
you know, there will be this kind of

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power in literally one guy's machine,

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uh,

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it can start making a lot of sense for even the
people in that very small group of people

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to, you know,

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break the law and take these types of very extreme
actions against each other.

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Like,

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when you have that kind of

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power to compete for and you know,

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you know, once the AI is aligned to you, you have
power to get away with anything.

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And

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actually, there's a lot of nuances here.

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So, it depends, you know, how fast the takeoff
goes, like how fast does the AI become

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powerful enough that you can in fact get away with
it.

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But yeah, generally I do see AI as one of the
situations where

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they're just building a hugely concentrated amount
of power in one room and

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if a lot of the normal

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rules of, you know,

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okay, we will get you arrested and, you know, your
reputation will be

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damaged

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and,

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you know, you will lose your friends, your family,
like, all of those things straight up

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don't matter anymore in that type of situation.

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Like, you can just

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create new friends and family, you can create, you
know, parallel civilizations.

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Um...

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You can edit yourself. You can edit out the parts
of yourselves that you don't feel

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morally

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wounded.Yeah.

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Okay. I think I

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took a

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(laughs) fairly extreme thought experiment.

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This is one of those things I think can actually
happen, although that's my own

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misconception. I don't mean it likely, but I mean
it's possible

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that, you know, literally in the AI companies
there are people literally, you know,

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murdering each other.

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Uh,

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but anyways, look, the

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point I'm bringing... So here I could bring up
this example without talking about, you

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know... without naming any specific person and
saying, "I will go and kill this person."

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I just said, "I will kill my own clone."

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And

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I view a lot of the world this way. Like,

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uh, imagine you know Samuel,

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but he had a billion dollars, how would he behave?

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You know, imagine Samuel, but he grew up with, you
know, no money like in...

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like

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in a small village, you know, to a farmer family
and how would they behave? Behave?

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Imagine Samuel grew up, you know, with a lot more
interest in art, how would he

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behave? You know, Imagine if Samuel was really
good at persuading others, how would he

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00:13:17,171 --> 00:13:17,911
behave? Like,

230
00:13:18,831 --> 00:13:21,431
a lot of specific decisions I've made in life

231
00:13:22,951 --> 00:13:26,671
s- seem to just be downstream of arbitrary things,
like, you know, I was born into a

232
00:13:26,691 --> 00:13:31,611
certain family, in a certain country, with certain
or I happen to

233
00:13:31,631 --> 00:13:35,711
like certain things and therefore I got good at
them and it became a compounding loop

234
00:13:35,991 --> 00:13:36,431
that...

235
00:13:38,411 --> 00:13:42,891
Now I will by default, for example, look at, okay,
software is a way to influence reality

236
00:13:43,011 --> 00:13:46,851
just because I happen to know a bit of software,
even though I'm not really good at it,

237
00:13:46,871 --> 00:13:48,391
but just the fact that I know it at all

238
00:13:50,391 --> 00:13:54,471
means... Okay, I see, okay here is the lever I
pull and, you know, the world moves as a

239
00:13:54,511 --> 00:13:54,991
result.

240
00:13:57,111 --> 00:13:57,691
Whereas

241
00:13:58,631 --> 00:14:02,291
if Samuel was just someone who just did not enjoy
writing code and

242
00:14:03,971 --> 00:14:05,031
enjoyed, you know,

243
00:14:07,911 --> 00:14:11,511
I don't know, public speaking instead, maybe
Samuel would be going for the route of

244
00:14:11,551 --> 00:14:12,911
trying to become a politician.

245
00:14:14,091 --> 00:14:14,791
Like...

246
00:14:17,371 --> 00:14:17,691
Yeah.

247
00:14:18,991 --> 00:14:22,211
Again, it's just routes to power, right? Attention
versus capital.

248
00:14:22,211 --> 00:14:26,191
It's just certain people are predisposed to have
skills that will make them acquire

249
00:14:26,191 --> 00:14:29,071
attention and certain people have skills that will
make them be disposed to acquire

250
00:14:29,111 --> 00:14:29,591
capital.

251
00:14:30,551 --> 00:14:34,631
And both of these give you fundamentally different
ways of thinking about politics,

252
00:14:34,651 --> 00:14:35,151
like...

253
00:14:38,151 --> 00:14:39,991
I... I am biased towards attention by the way.

254
00:14:40,051 --> 00:14:43,511
I think if you just want to be super effective,
like acquiring attention is

255
00:14:45,111 --> 00:14:48,751
more valuable. You know, become a politician,
don't become a billionaire. I...

256
00:14:48,751 --> 00:14:49,551
I just think this.

257
00:14:52,791 --> 00:14:54,931
Uh, uh, sorry, I'm going all over the place.

258
00:14:54,931 --> 00:14:57,531
I think I'll keep that politician/billionaire
point separately.

259
00:14:57,531 --> 00:15:01,731
Let's shove that aside for now. Let's talk about
what I actually wanted to talk about...

260
00:15:03,171 --> 00:15:04,291
Yeah. Which is...

261
00:15:05,431 --> 00:15:07,751
Yeah, if I imagine Samuel, but with

262
00:15:08,711 --> 00:15:12,051
just different lives compounded over, you know,
10, 20 years.

263
00:15:12,771 --> 00:15:16,551
It's just that other version of Samuel just ends
up in a very different life trajectory.

264
00:15:16,691 --> 00:15:16,951
And

265
00:15:17,551 --> 00:15:21,831
when I look at a lot of people around me, I
honestly wonder, you know, is this guy just

266
00:15:21,851 --> 00:15:24,871
Samuel with less money? Is this guy just Samuel
but he

267
00:15:25,651 --> 00:15:27,971
got good at trading? Is this just

268
00:15:28,971 --> 00:15:33,631
Samuel, but he happened to be in, you know, a
family that taught him XYZ values, not

269
00:15:33,651 --> 00:15:34,671
ABC values?

270
00:15:36,731 --> 00:15:37,191
Or

271
00:15:40,071 --> 00:15:44,831
s- I mean, for example, I think people who grow up
as orphans are more morally kind of

272
00:15:44,871 --> 00:15:46,091
free in life.

273
00:15:47,371 --> 00:15:52,171
Like, I have actual examples of this. Uh...

274
00:15:55,531 --> 00:16:00,351
No, I have lots of these examples. I don't have
them off the top of my head right now.

275
00:16:08,671 --> 00:16:09,151
(sighs)

276
00:16:09,771 --> 00:16:13,811
And, uh, most recently I g- I can just think of
Julian Assange because he's someone I've

277
00:16:13,831 --> 00:16:16,691
been reading a lot about for, you know, related
reasons,

278
00:16:17,631 --> 00:16:22,131
which is... Yeah. His parents did not have a great
marriage, if I

279
00:16:22,191 --> 00:16:23,591
remember, and...

280
00:16:26,531 --> 00:16:30,491
So... See, for example, if your parents don't have
a great marriage, that means, you

281
00:16:30,491 --> 00:16:34,631
know, most probably your dad is telling you to
follow one set of values and your mom is

282
00:16:34,631 --> 00:16:36,851
telling you to follow an entirely different set of
values,

283
00:16:37,611 --> 00:16:41,691
and that will disorient you in the sense you'll
realize, okay, neither of these sides is

284
00:16:41,791 --> 00:16:42,771
obviously correct.

285
00:16:43,971 --> 00:16:47,711
Or maybe some people do. Maybe some people just
side with one parent, but that's the type

286
00:16:47,711 --> 00:16:51,851
of thing that can just destabilize your sense
of... Okay, hmm, uh...

287
00:16:52,651 --> 00:16:56,731
You know, I can't trust either set of values.
Like, I had a similar thing, by the way.

288
00:16:56,731 --> 00:16:56,991
Like,

289
00:16:57,791 --> 00:17:01,431
not... Not divorce, but the basic idea of like,

290
00:17:02,851 --> 00:17:07,391
lots of events, you know, in my childhood that
just destabilized my sense of, "Okay,

291
00:17:07,751 --> 00:17:11,071
I can't trust anyone around me to, you know, tell
me what my values should be."

292
00:17:12,871 --> 00:17:13,451
Like...

293
00:17:15,771 --> 00:17:20,171
I had a bunch of that going on. So, sorry, I'm
getting distracted. The point was...

294
00:17:20,191 --> 00:17:20,771
Yeah, I mean,

295
00:17:21,471 --> 00:17:24,731
yeah, family background obviously affects your
values too.

296
00:17:25,811 --> 00:17:29,251
So when I look at another person, often wonder was
this just, you know, Samuel with a

297
00:17:29,291 --> 00:17:34,131
different family situation, for example? Maybe
that's why they ended up the same. Like...

298
00:17:38,971 --> 00:17:43,751
Yeah. And I honestly wonder how much of politics
is just explainable using

299
00:17:43,791 --> 00:17:44,671
this. Like...

300
00:17:51,571 --> 00:17:54,271
No, it's just there are so many examples, I don't
know where to start.

301
00:17:55,111 --> 00:17:59,471
Okay, maybe I... Maybe I'll then just share some
of my own political opinions.

302
00:17:59,571 --> 00:17:59,831
So,

303
00:18:00,611 --> 00:18:04,591
I don't know. I have a fairly "might makes right"
view of history, basically.

304
00:18:05,931 --> 00:18:07,951
And I have written about this more on my blog.

305
00:18:07,991 --> 00:18:10,471
If you want more nuanced stuff, you can go and
read there.

306
00:18:13,071 --> 00:18:16,451
But yeah, basically, I think generally over the
long run,

307
00:18:16,471 --> 00:18:21,427
if-Lots of people have the power to get away with
something, some of them will get away

308
00:18:21,447 --> 00:18:21,807
with it,

309
00:18:22,608 --> 00:18:24,087
so basically put it that way.

310
00:18:24,927 --> 00:18:26,447
Like if you have power you can kind of

311
00:18:27,668 --> 00:18:31,047
get away with anything but there are nuances to
it, it's not as simple as you can get

312
00:18:31,048 --> 00:18:35,148
away with anything. It's...

313
00:18:39,428 --> 00:18:43,588
Yeah, there are a bunch of nuances here and I have
covered this better on my website.

314
00:18:43,588 --> 00:18:46,867
I'm wondering if I should actually talk about it
here. I think, but it seems relevant.

315
00:18:48,107 --> 00:18:50,827
Uh, yeah, I think balance of powers

316
00:18:52,548 --> 00:18:54,388
an important way in which how...

317
00:18:58,348 --> 00:18:59,368
Uh, morality of

318
00:19:00,348 --> 00:19:02,508
various cultures gets decided like,

319
00:19:03,487 --> 00:19:07,668
so know you, you might actually end up copying the
morality of, you know, your parents,

320
00:19:07,668 --> 00:19:10,907
your friends. You know, the people you see around
you in your society,

321
00:19:11,587 --> 00:19:13,827
but your society has been shaped from somewhere.

322
00:19:13,827 --> 00:19:16,887
Your society did not just drop out of the sky 100
years ago.

323
00:19:18,007 --> 00:19:22,347
And, you know, people 100 years back, even in your
own village or town might have had

324
00:19:22,367 --> 00:19:23,467
different values from your

325
00:19:24,347 --> 00:19:26,407
city or town or wherever today.

326
00:19:27,507 --> 00:19:31,967
Like, on long horizons, long-time horizons, you
know, values get shaped from

327
00:19:31,987 --> 00:19:32,587
somewhere.

328
00:19:35,947 --> 00:19:39,667
Oh, yeah, and the common mistake people make here
is thinking...

329
00:19:40,427 --> 00:19:43,687
Basically conspiracy theory, you know, there is
this, you know, secret evil guy at the

330
00:19:43,707 --> 00:19:47,007
back who just controls everything and this guy
has, you know,

331
00:19:47,687 --> 00:19:49,407
shaped the morality of the whole world.

332
00:19:49,527 --> 00:19:50,787
You know, this could be,

333
00:19:52,187 --> 00:19:57,067
like more recently, I guess, the WEF is popular,
like I guess Klaus Schwab and

334
00:19:57,067 --> 00:19:58,147
stuff. Uh,

335
00:19:59,047 --> 00:20:03,227
I have my own set of kind of conspiracy theories
which I believe are some truth in, on

336
00:20:03,267 --> 00:20:07,267
you know, Allen Dulles and Henry Kissinger and,
you know, the US intelligence community

337
00:20:07,287 --> 00:20:09,107
and how they've shaped the values of the world.

338
00:20:09,107 --> 00:20:09,347
Uh, what other conspiracy theories are there?

339
00:20:09,347 --> 00:20:09,587
Uh, yeah, I think they directly, indirectly insert
either distrust of companies or

340
00:20:09,587 --> 00:20:09,867
distrust of, you know, government. Like your
political orientation at this point is, like

341
00:20:09,867 --> 00:20:09,867
a huge part of your political orientation is just
do you trust companies, yes or no?

342
00:20:09,867 --> 00:20:09,967
Do you trust governments, yes or no? So if you are
like, "Yes and yes," that's one

343
00:20:09,967 --> 00:20:09,967
orientation. If you're "Yes and no," that's one
orientation.

344
00:20:09,967 --> 00:20:09,967
If you're "No and yes," that's another
orientation.

345
00:20:09,967 --> 00:20:10,827
If you're "No and no," that's another orientation.
Uh... Why am I bringing all this up?

346
00:20:10,827 --> 00:20:11,487
Yeah, I was talking about basically, uh, you can't
assume that, okay, the values of the

347
00:20:11,487 --> 00:20:11,767
entire world

348
00:20:15,587 --> 00:20:22,787
were

349
00:20:23,407 --> 00:21:14,607
designed

350
00:21:14,627 --> 00:21:16,267
secretly by one guy at the back,

351
00:21:17,107 --> 00:21:20,447
but you can find predictable trends that

352
00:21:21,647 --> 00:21:22,167
exist

353
00:21:22,847 --> 00:21:25,667
in how values of a society have changed over time

354
00:21:26,887 --> 00:21:28,667
and also help you create the future proof.

355
00:21:32,007 --> 00:21:36,827
So yeah, I think I do want to have somewhat of a
timeless view on,

356
00:21:36,967 --> 00:21:40,967
of morality myself. Like, I don't want to be
trapped by, you know,

357
00:21:42,087 --> 00:21:46,507
what do people of the upper-middle class in India
with X, Y, Z child would think in

358
00:21:46,527 --> 00:21:48,127
2025. Like,

359
00:21:49,547 --> 00:21:51,927
I want to know what people think about it in 1900.

360
00:21:51,927 --> 00:21:55,707
I want to know what I would have thought about
morality if I grew up in the US.

361
00:21:56,327 --> 00:21:58,447
I want to know what I would have thought about
morality...

362
00:21:58,467 --> 00:22:02,907
Like, again, I'm sorry, I'm just repeating my
point but, yeah, I don't want to be trapped

363
00:22:02,927 --> 00:22:05,347
by the morality of the people around me basically.

364
00:22:08,787 --> 00:22:09,167
And

365
00:22:09,987 --> 00:22:10,947
I have a lot of

366
00:22:11,687 --> 00:22:14,267
theoretical and very personal reasons for that.

367
00:22:25,927 --> 00:22:30,207
Yeah, I think my, what I wanted to say today was
lacking structure but now I kind of see

368
00:22:30,387 --> 00:22:32,087
the structure. So the structure is look,

369
00:22:32,787 --> 00:22:34,907
here is a bunch of things that happened in the
past.

370
00:22:35,427 --> 00:22:39,047
This is why they broke me as a person and made me
not

371
00:22:39,887 --> 00:22:40,527
want to follow

372
00:22:41,287 --> 00:22:43,507
common morality as people around me anymore.

373
00:22:43,787 --> 00:22:46,547
And then there is like, you know, here is all the
exploration I'm doing about, you know,

374
00:22:46,567 --> 00:22:47,247
my values

375
00:22:47,887 --> 00:22:49,807
in the future and a lot of thoughts around that.

376
00:22:49,807 --> 00:22:52,907
So there's the past thing, there's the, you know,
present is just

377
00:22:54,427 --> 00:22:58,067
not fitting in with values of people around me,
and then there is, you know, future

378
00:22:58,207 --> 00:22:58,467
thing.

379
00:22:59,407 --> 00:23:00,127
So...

380
00:23:05,007 --> 00:23:08,287
Yeah, so I think I've directly started jumping to
the future thing because that's where

381
00:23:08,307 --> 00:23:11,187
my head is at, that's what I'm trying to figure
out, you know, how this balance of power

382
00:23:11,227 --> 00:23:11,647
works.

383
00:23:17,787 --> 00:23:21,867
I think some of what I'm going to say will make
more sense to people if they go and see

384
00:23:21,907 --> 00:23:23,787
two resources. One is, uh,

385
00:23:24,587 --> 00:23:27,667
Meditations of Moloch by Scott Alexander.

386
00:23:27,947 --> 00:23:31,327
Uh, two is Rules for Rulers

387
00:23:32,067 --> 00:23:33,367
by C.G.P. Grey.

388
00:23:34,147 --> 00:23:35,367
If you watch these people,

389
00:23:36,067 --> 00:23:38,287
you'll understand a lot better how power works

390
00:23:39,787 --> 00:23:44,767
and how morality works. I think you, you can't
separate those

391
00:23:44,787 --> 00:23:47,307
two from each other. Like you can't have a
discussion of power without

392
00:23:48,067 --> 00:23:51,167
morality. You kind of can, but not really.

393
00:23:51,527 --> 00:23:55,187
And vice versa, you can't have a discussion of
morality without power, at least in my

394
00:23:55,187 --> 00:24:00,007
world view it's just morality and balance of power
are just so fundamentally kind of

395
00:24:00,027 --> 00:24:01,187
interlinked with each other.

396
00:24:07,287 --> 00:24:07,307
Uh...

397
00:24:12,347 --> 00:24:16,027
I'm not sure, should I be talking about the past
or should I be talking just right now...

398
00:24:16,047 --> 00:24:18,727
Maybe I'll just complete what I was talking about,
you know, balance of power.

399
00:24:18,727 --> 00:24:23,592
So I'll give just a bunch of examples on why I
think balance of power is important.So,

400
00:24:23,811 --> 00:24:28,371
the first and maybe the most important of all of
these is, even today in 2025 society, I

401
00:24:28,411 --> 00:24:29,311
just see a huge

402
00:24:31,311 --> 00:24:34,831
difference between how different classes think
about morality.

403
00:24:34,891 --> 00:24:35,212
So,

404
00:24:35,911 --> 00:24:39,031
we can talk basically, you know, lower class,
middle class, upper class.

405
00:24:40,231 --> 00:24:40,512
So,

406
00:24:41,811 --> 00:24:46,671
I think lower class is kind of stuck in the sense
that people of the lower

407
00:24:46,731 --> 00:24:50,391
class don't have the option to escape their
friends and family even if they want to.

408
00:24:51,871 --> 00:24:55,671
And therefore, the only morality becomes one of
accepting that, you know,

409
00:24:56,692 --> 00:25:00,032
you know, your fri- friends and family are here,
they are always going to be here, you

410
00:25:00,051 --> 00:25:03,371
are going to be in this house from when you're
born 'til when you die.

411
00:25:03,631 --> 00:25:03,931
And

412
00:25:06,231 --> 00:25:10,152
because everyone is stuck in the same place, they
also kind of have to get along with

413
00:25:10,172 --> 00:25:10,751
each other,

414
00:25:11,551 --> 00:25:15,631
and they might get good at it. You can build very
strong reputations in a world where,

415
00:25:15,631 --> 00:25:18,931
you know, you can't just escape. Like, you can't
just disappear and go and, you know,

416
00:25:18,931 --> 00:25:22,151
scam someone else. You end up building
reputations.

417
00:25:22,151 --> 00:25:23,951
You can have a lot of trust,

418
00:25:24,651 --> 00:25:27,311
as a result, lots of people can trust each other a
lot.

419
00:25:30,171 --> 00:25:34,191
So, there is, one is that kind of morality, which
is I think most prevalent in lower

420
00:25:34,211 --> 00:25:34,891
class. And

421
00:25:35,571 --> 00:25:39,691
there's also country-wise variations, you know, a
middle class, an Indian person in India

422
00:25:39,691 --> 00:25:43,731
and a middle class person in the US are going to
think differently about morality, but I

423
00:25:43,751 --> 00:25:45,991
think there's some commonality even across
countries.

424
00:25:46,171 --> 00:25:47,691
Just, you know, how much money you have.

425
00:25:49,371 --> 00:25:52,191
And this is the first and biggest way in which I
would...

426
00:25:52,491 --> 00:25:55,391
well, I don't know biggest, but this is a major
way in which I would say just how much

427
00:25:55,411 --> 00:25:57,391
power you have changes your, your morality.

428
00:25:59,951 --> 00:26:04,191
Then we can come to, you know, middle or
upper-middle class kind of values which are more

429
00:26:04,251 --> 00:26:05,971
kind of individualist basically,

430
00:26:07,711 --> 00:26:08,111
uh,

431
00:26:09,131 --> 00:26:14,091
first of all you are more likely to only relate
to, you know, like a nuclear family, your

432
00:26:14,111 --> 00:26:16,771
immediate parents, your immediate set of friends,
and less,

433
00:26:17,411 --> 00:26:20,711
you know, maybe your extended family, maybe, you
know, broader community of thousands of

434
00:26:20,711 --> 00:26:21,691
people, you know.

435
00:26:23,111 --> 00:26:26,351
Maybe your family shifts for work. Maybe you shift
for work.

436
00:26:26,531 --> 00:26:26,951
Maybe

437
00:26:28,371 --> 00:26:28,731
your

438
00:26:29,771 --> 00:26:33,291
other people in your community, you know, they
shift for various reasons.

439
00:26:37,071 --> 00:26:41,311
Like, everyone has more ability to exit situations
that don't suit them,

440
00:26:43,311 --> 00:26:45,691
and everyone else has more advantage to do it.

441
00:26:45,691 --> 00:26:49,231
Like, if you're in a middle- middle class,
basically now you have

442
00:26:50,431 --> 00:26:52,691
the ability to make money by selling your
knowledge.

443
00:26:52,931 --> 00:26:53,331
Like,

444
00:26:54,671 --> 00:26:58,211
you're not doomed to, you know, die a farmer just
because you were born a farmer.

445
00:26:59,211 --> 00:27:01,731
And now you have options in life, and

446
00:27:02,571 --> 00:27:06,091
sometimes you might pick those options over, you
know, living in the place where, you

447
00:27:06,111 --> 00:27:07,351
know, the rest of

448
00:27:08,311 --> 00:27:08,671
your,

449
00:27:09,451 --> 00:27:11,731
you know, extended family is for example.

450
00:27:13,831 --> 00:27:14,211
So,

451
00:27:14,851 --> 00:27:19,591
I think middle class makes you more individualist,
uh, and the more you work, you know, I

452
00:27:19,651 --> 00:27:23,931
have a lot of high resolution view of this because
I am sitting in this kind of upper

453
00:27:23,971 --> 00:27:25,071
middle class which is

454
00:27:26,011 --> 00:27:27,091
like the peak end of

455
00:27:27,711 --> 00:27:31,951
individualist but still middle class always of,
you know, valuing knowledge over, you

456
00:27:31,971 --> 00:27:34,391
know, actual power, actual attention, or capital.

457
00:27:36,951 --> 00:27:40,471
So, I have a fairly high resolution view of this
because I have seen a lot of these

458
00:27:40,511 --> 00:27:41,891
examples in my life. Like,

459
00:27:42,691 --> 00:27:44,351
you know, class blindness is a thing.

460
00:27:44,391 --> 00:27:46,791
You don't know much about the classes you're not a
part of.

461
00:27:51,011 --> 00:27:54,151
So, there's that and then there's, you know, the
upper class which I think is just more

462
00:27:54,191 --> 00:27:56,651
consequentialist, more utilitarian.

463
00:27:57,531 --> 00:27:58,031
Uh,

464
00:28:00,051 --> 00:28:04,991
like if you are running, you know, an entire
branch of government, it's obvious to you

465
00:28:05,071 --> 00:28:05,351
that,

466
00:28:06,031 --> 00:28:07,871
you know, you are going to fuck up sometimes.

467
00:28:07,871 --> 00:28:08,231
You are,

468
00:28:08,951 --> 00:28:11,831
the bureaucracy under y- you is going to fuck up
sometimes.

469
00:28:11,831 --> 00:28:15,871
They are going to, you know, damage people's lives
which obviously you- you can't just go

470
00:28:15,891 --> 00:28:19,431
publicly say whatever the hell you want because
that will have actually actual

471
00:28:19,471 --> 00:28:22,271
implications and you know failures of hundreds of
people with...

472
00:28:23,251 --> 00:28:27,391
It'll have implications on, you know, which other
people in government can coordinate

473
00:28:27,391 --> 00:28:30,591
with you, which other, you know, geopolitically,
you know, which people of the other

474
00:28:30,611 --> 00:28:33,831
countries can coordinate with you, you know, all
the businessmen who are funding you, you

475
00:28:33,851 --> 00:28:35,651
know, it'll have implications in that.

476
00:28:35,691 --> 00:28:35,931
So,

477
00:28:36,631 --> 00:28:40,311
you know the idea of "I'll just go on YouTube and
say what the hell I want" is

478
00:28:41,091 --> 00:28:45,111
not something you're going to do if you're, you
know, you're a politician and you're

479
00:28:45,111 --> 00:28:46,551
ambitious. Uh,

480
00:28:50,031 --> 00:28:53,231
I haven't... I have an entire article on this, you
know, like

481
00:28:53,891 --> 00:28:55,971
my thoughts on elite class values.

482
00:28:58,611 --> 00:29:02,151
And a bunch of it just seems explainable by their
situation, like

483
00:29:02,791 --> 00:29:06,691
obviously you're going to be okay with some amount
of damaging some people if,

484
00:29:07,851 --> 00:29:08,251
you know,

485
00:29:09,111 --> 00:29:10,751
in the end it kind of works out.

486
00:29:12,811 --> 00:29:13,091
So,

487
00:29:15,031 --> 00:29:15,491
uh,

488
00:29:19,291 --> 00:29:22,251
yeah, I think there's also a thing where

489
00:29:23,331 --> 00:29:27,691
it is seen as more morally okay if a powerful
person causes harm versus if, you know, a

490
00:29:27,711 --> 00:29:29,191
middle class person causes harm.

491
00:29:30,391 --> 00:29:30,871
Uh,

492
00:29:33,431 --> 00:29:37,231
I mean you can, you can Google this and a lot of
examples, you know, let's say it could

493
00:29:37,271 --> 00:29:38,691
be trading, you know,

494
00:29:40,071 --> 00:29:43,791
middle class person does insider trading, ends up,
you know, 20 years in prison, you

495
00:29:43,791 --> 00:29:44,011
know,

496
00:29:44,631 --> 00:29:47,411
billionaire does insider trading and gets to keep
the money.

497
00:29:49,351 --> 00:29:49,931
Or

498
00:29:52,111 --> 00:29:56,731
I don't know, middle class person writes an
encryption tool, he ends up in

499
00:29:56,791 --> 00:30:00,051
prison. Uh, like what was his, uh, guy's name?

500
00:30:00,051 --> 00:30:00,291
Uh,

501
00:30:01,011 --> 00:30:05,431
so Tornado Cash is this, uh, Ethereum protocol
that lets you

502
00:30:06,511 --> 00:30:11,451
basically anonymous, like anonymously move
Ethereum around and that

503
00:30:11,451 --> 00:30:14,011
guy was put in prison just for writing this
protocol.

504
00:30:16,071 --> 00:30:19,271
Whereas, you know, Vitalik is not in prison, for
example.

505
00:30:20,611 --> 00:30:21,071
Uh,

506
00:30:23,031 --> 00:30:27,291
like if Vitalik wrote this protocol himself,
Vitalik would definitely not be in prison,

507
00:30:27,471 --> 00:30:28,031
so you

508
00:30:28,031 --> 00:30:35,161
know.I

509
00:30:35,202 --> 00:30:38,361
think these are not the best examples. There are
better examples than this.

510
00:30:42,441 --> 00:30:46,962
Oh. I have a lot of fairly back stuff on, you
know, war versus terrorism, where, you

511
00:30:46,962 --> 00:30:49,341
know, if, if you're powerful, it's called war.

512
00:30:49,342 --> 00:30:51,301
If you're not powerful, it's called terrorism.

513
00:30:51,541 --> 00:30:52,921
(laughs) And, you know,

514
00:30:53,922 --> 00:30:56,361
like the consent of the people means nothing in
either case.

515
00:30:56,361 --> 00:31:00,381
It's not like okay, if you're declaring war, you
somehow you have the consent of your

516
00:31:00,381 --> 00:31:03,081
people. Like, usually they just... You manufacture
that

517
00:31:04,221 --> 00:31:04,682
and...

518
00:31:05,921 --> 00:31:10,841
Oh, why do I think people who start wars with
manufactured consent, they don't obtain it?

519
00:31:10,981 --> 00:31:11,301
Uh,

520
00:31:12,121 --> 00:31:16,041
you'll have to read again a bunch of historical
examples for this. Uh...

521
00:31:21,921 --> 00:31:25,842
Yeah, I think some of these things, like, if
you've not actually read a bunch of history

522
00:31:25,862 --> 00:31:29,441
or not read, you know, books in political science,
it's just not going to make sense to

523
00:31:29,441 --> 00:31:30,021
you. Like,

524
00:31:32,661 --> 00:31:36,501
like, like say for example, the extent to which
politicians are obsessed with, you know,

525
00:31:37,461 --> 00:31:38,741
not always but often,

526
00:31:40,201 --> 00:31:44,341
with controlling the media. Like, they're obsessed
with having specific relationships

527
00:31:44,381 --> 00:31:47,321
with specific people at specific media
organizations.

528
00:31:47,321 --> 00:31:47,621
Like,

529
00:31:50,661 --> 00:31:53,281
this happens in every country but, you know,
recently I was

530
00:31:54,101 --> 00:31:58,421
reading... Who was the thing in the US? Like, I
think John F Kennedy.

531
00:31:58,841 --> 00:32:01,221
And by the way, sorry, I don't know a lot about US
politics.

532
00:32:01,221 --> 00:32:04,581
I just read but I have a very half-assed kind of
understanding of a lot of this.

533
00:32:04,581 --> 00:32:07,381
So please forgive me if I'm wrong about some of
these things, but...

534
00:32:07,801 --> 00:32:11,321
Yeah, I think John F Kennedy said specifically
about one particular, you know,

535
00:32:12,141 --> 00:32:15,601
uh, TV news... Not TV, sorry for saying

536
00:32:16,501 --> 00:32:18,961
this. One specific reporter. Maybe it was
newspaper.

537
00:32:19,081 --> 00:32:22,801
Yeah, I think newspaper that, you know, "If I
lose, you know,

538
00:32:23,601 --> 00:32:27,681
the support of this particular newspaper reporter,
I have lost, you know, this fraction

539
00:32:27,701 --> 00:32:30,881
of the US population as, you know, my support."

540
00:32:32,261 --> 00:32:32,541
And

541
00:32:35,721 --> 00:32:40,341
so if I grew up in, you know, a politician or
billionaire family, I had, you know, these

542
00:32:40,341 --> 00:32:43,701
types of people in my friend circle, like all this
would just be

543
00:32:44,661 --> 00:32:48,661
pretty fucking obvious to me. Whereas if I'd grown
up, you know, as an upper middle

544
00:32:48,701 --> 00:32:49,421
class, I might

545
00:32:50,481 --> 00:32:53,281
go my entire life without ever realizing this,
that,

546
00:32:54,141 --> 00:32:57,761
you know, if you're a politician, you're probably
obsessed with more specific people in

547
00:32:57,821 --> 00:32:59,081
media organizations then.

548
00:33:02,861 --> 00:33:06,701
And yeah, this I think comes back to the class
blindness thing about, you know, you don't

549
00:33:06,721 --> 00:33:08,601
know how people in other classes think.

550
00:33:16,421 --> 00:33:20,921
Yeah. So that was the first moral difference, you
know, like

551
00:33:22,221 --> 00:33:24,501
community values versus individualist.

552
00:33:24,901 --> 00:33:29,221
Uh, kind of deontological values versus, you know,
individualist, uh,

553
00:33:30,121 --> 00:33:32,101
consequentialist values.

554
00:33:33,101 --> 00:33:36,581
That's the first difference. Then there are
differences, you know, around geography

555
00:33:36,621 --> 00:33:37,341
where, you know...

556
00:33:38,941 --> 00:33:43,421
So Genghis Khan grew up in Mongolia because
Mongolia is a landlocked kind of place.

557
00:33:44,481 --> 00:33:47,441
I don't know. I'm not sure if all of these are
100% true. It's...

558
00:33:47,781 --> 00:33:51,401
Like, if you actually debate the details of all,
every single example, I don't know if

559
00:33:51,461 --> 00:33:53,661
you know, maybe some of my examples will end up
wrong but

560
00:33:54,321 --> 00:33:55,841
I don't think all of them will end up wrong.

561
00:33:56,081 --> 00:33:59,721
If all of them end up wrong, maybe you should be
telling me but if m- examples are mostly

562
00:33:59,761 --> 00:34:02,401
correct and one or two are kind of off, you know,
I'm okay with that.

563
00:34:02,761 --> 00:34:06,241
You can still tell me but yeah, that won't
invalidate my actual point.

564
00:34:08,741 --> 00:34:10,461
You know, Genghis Khan

565
00:34:11,141 --> 00:34:15,641
grew up in Mongolia which is, you know,
landlocked, which means constant threat of

566
00:34:15,681 --> 00:34:17,881
invasion from all sides. You know, from...

567
00:34:19,041 --> 00:34:22,541
Well, today it's Russia and China but at that
time...

568
00:34:24,761 --> 00:34:26,701
Yeah, at that time the kingdoms were different.

569
00:34:26,701 --> 00:34:29,621
Like, China as a kingdom definitely still existed.

570
00:34:29,621 --> 00:34:30,861
I think Russia

571
00:34:32,681 --> 00:34:36,661
was kind of different. I don't actually know much
about back then what did Russia look

572
00:34:36,661 --> 00:34:39,081
like. Like, what was the context of Russia at that
point?

573
00:34:39,741 --> 00:34:44,321
But yeah, the broader idea is we're just in a
landlocked area, therefore the only person

574
00:34:44,321 --> 00:34:45,321
who gets good at

575
00:34:46,001 --> 00:34:47,401
war is the one who survives

576
00:34:48,221 --> 00:34:48,601
and

577
00:34:49,781 --> 00:34:53,181
lot... That forces you to innovate. Like, I think
war forces you to do a lot of

578
00:34:53,221 --> 00:34:54,121
innovation. Like,

579
00:34:54,881 --> 00:34:57,241
World War II led to huge amount of innovation.

580
00:34:57,341 --> 00:34:57,581
Like,

581
00:34:58,341 --> 00:35:00,901
l- literally, you know, hundreds of billions.

582
00:35:01,261 --> 00:35:01,581
Like,

583
00:35:02,561 --> 00:35:06,501
that time's equivalent of... Like today hundreds
of billions of dollars, whatever the

584
00:35:06,521 --> 00:35:09,981
equivalent of that was in that time, was just
poured into, you know, technology

585
00:35:10,921 --> 00:35:14,101
in World War II like this. You can just google
"World War II technologies".

586
00:35:14,101 --> 00:35:17,621
There's an entire list of technologies that got
invented in World War II, because...

587
00:35:18,661 --> 00:35:21,561
Yeah, because war is the mother of a bunch of
invention basically.

588
00:35:21,561 --> 00:35:25,381
So Genghis Khan did that too, you know, with
horseback archers and...

589
00:35:25,461 --> 00:35:29,841
Yeah, had

590
00:35:29,921 --> 00:35:30,601
basically

591
00:35:33,801 --> 00:35:38,741
rigid rule of, you know, either you submit to us
and you'll be spared or, you know, we

592
00:35:39,901 --> 00:35:44,381
literally slaughter all of you. We rape all your
women and we bury all of you

593
00:35:44,421 --> 00:35:44,901
and...

594
00:35:48,421 --> 00:35:53,201
That was, you know, his kind of morality whereas
if you look at maybe a sea locked nation

595
00:35:53,221 --> 00:35:57,381
like say the UK. So you know how Britain
colonized, you know, half the planet?

596
00:35:58,021 --> 00:35:59,941
But the way they did it was kind of different.

597
00:35:59,941 --> 00:36:00,801
It was not,

598
00:36:03,101 --> 00:36:03,581
you know,

599
00:36:04,681 --> 00:36:08,261
constantly going and threatening each land border
and saying, you know, "Submit or we

600
00:36:08,261 --> 00:36:11,341
will join yourself." It was more, uh...

601
00:36:13,521 --> 00:36:16,181
First of all they used technological strength
obviously, you know.

602
00:36:17,021 --> 00:36:17,541
Because

603
00:36:18,221 --> 00:36:22,401
Britain was sea locked and I, I am aware these are
from different time periods.

604
00:36:22,401 --> 00:36:26,461
You know, Mongolia- Mongolian empire and British
empire are from different empi- are from

605
00:36:26,481 --> 00:36:29,681
different time periods, I am aware but I am just
comparing, you know, landlocked versus

606
00:36:29,681 --> 00:36:32,921
sea locked. Landlocked colonizers versus sea
locked colonizers.

607
00:36:34,301 --> 00:36:35,721
So Britain first of all

608
00:36:36,681 --> 00:36:37,241
had,

609
00:36:38,141 --> 00:36:41,841
you know, ship building capacity that was among
the most advanced in the world.

610
00:36:42,481 --> 00:36:44,161
Again, partly because they were sea locked.

611
00:36:44,221 --> 00:36:45,221
They had to innovate on

612
00:36:45,941 --> 00:36:49,741
how do we get better at ship building because that
affects, you know, trade, you know,

613
00:36:49,741 --> 00:36:52,761
how much resources we create. It affects our, you
know, military capacity.

614
00:36:52,761 --> 00:36:53,261
Therefore,

615
00:36:53,901 --> 00:36:55,161
we have to get good at this.

616
00:36:57,341 --> 00:36:58,041
And,

617
00:37:00,521 --> 00:37:04,061
yeah, Britain followed more of a policy of divide
and rule.

618
00:37:05,241 --> 00:37:07,161
Like, they were savvy at politics basically.

619
00:37:09,921 --> 00:37:13,361
(laughs) Like if you read Indian his- like,
history of India you- you get to read a lot

620
00:37:13,361 --> 00:37:17,821
of divide and rule politics that Britain has
played, you know, between, you know, Hindus

621
00:37:17,821 --> 00:37:20,141
versus Muslims, you know, India versus Pakistan,

622
00:37:20,841 --> 00:37:23,041
between even various empires within India.

623
00:37:25,601 --> 00:37:26,201
So yeah,

624
00:37:27,161 --> 00:37:30,141
British was also savvy at politics, you know,
historically.

625
00:37:31,841 --> 00:37:33,401
They were also good

626
00:37:34,341 --> 00:37:36,501
at accounting and trade.

627
00:37:37,401 --> 00:37:39,581
So you know those double ledger accounting.

628
00:37:40,421 --> 00:37:42,001
Not double. What do you call it? Sorry.

629
00:37:42,021 --> 00:37:43,901
Double entry book keeping

630
00:37:45,201 --> 00:37:46,201
was invented...

631
00:37:47,041 --> 00:37:50,561
Well, I'm not sure why, when it was invented but
it was very popular in Britain at that

632
00:37:50,641 --> 00:37:50,921
time

633
00:37:51,581 --> 00:37:52,881
when, for example, a lot of

634
00:37:53,621 --> 00:37:55,901
British colonies did not have that concept.

635
00:37:56,981 --> 00:38:00,481
Like, trades existed, loans existed, debts existed
but the,

636
00:38:01,781 --> 00:38:05,881
the more, you know, financialization that happened
of, you know, there will be account-